[maveriiick]

I Have heard so many conflicting remarks concerning submersion of bonsai. Some bonsaists say it's bad and causes salt accumulation, etc. while others see it as the best way to saturate the soil so that air pockets are not left with regular watering. What is correct? All the nurseries that I have bought bonsai from (large and bonsai specific) say to water by submersion, yet there are many who say the opposite. I've done both, but prefer the submersion method, but I don't want to put my trees in detriment in case there is factual reasons against submersion. Please help.
Thanx

[Ed Merc]

I have never had a knowledgeable bonsaist tell me to submerge. That's the kind of thing typically passed on by the "mallsai" vendors who know next to nothing of bonsai.

[jkl]

Well, except for bald cypress and water tupelo and other swamp trees, Ma Nature prefers to sprinkle water from the top. Submersion does help get rid of air pockets after you first transplant/repot, so it's OK then, but done regularly, it will compact soil unduly. I submerge my 100 or so trees when I fertilize. That's all.

Besides when you have more than a dozen or so trees, watering by submersion becomes impossible.

[maveriiick]

Ed Merc, on 31 October 2009 - 07:35 AM, said:

I have never had a knowledgeable bonsaist tell me to submerge. That's the kind of thing typically passed on by the "mallsai" vendors who know next to nothing of bonsai.

I buy most of my trees from "bonsai-specific" nurseries that are well respected and been around for years, and they have both recommended submersion. I use both methods, but like the submersion method better as the tree appears to get a better watering. Does anyone have any evidence based studies that confirm submersion results in adverse conditions for trees/plants?

[jkl]

I doubt there have been any scientific studies with control subjects performed on the subject. Sources of funds for that kind of work probably are scarce. But, my my . . . you of course may do what you wish.

We all start out in bonsai submerging our trees, having received the same instructions you have. Most of us lost a lot of trees early on to root rot. One conclusion might be that compact soil that didn't drain well and didn't have interstitial room for the oxygen the tree needs may have contributed. I've been doing bonsai for 40 years now and while I've never bought a bonsai from a dealer so have never had one make that recommendation to me, I haven't watered by submersion (except for the aforementioned fertilization 2-3 times a summer) for 35+ of those years. I've, of course lost a few trees in that period, but not from root rot.

But now . . . you've gotten recommendations from two sources. You can make your choice. They're your trees.

[The Fish]

I do both. The 'soil' I use is so free draining, that it is impossible to over water.

[Roobz]

Heres how i see it.

When you water by submerging your pushing all of the oxygen OUT, and we know that roots need both water and oxygen.
but when you water from above you are pushing oxygen INTO the soil, this is a good thing.
The more free draining a soil you use, the more oxygen can be introduced.

[lennard]

After a previous thread I've surfed the net to find scientific proof for either way but I found none.

The only reason for me not to submerge my plants, is the time it takes to do it. Im in favour of the submerge method because I like to give little fertilizer everytime I water...... but I got over a hundred trees now so it is impossible to do it.

I still submerge my smallest pots because I have found those pots staying wet longer in our dry heat.

When submerging the trees the oxygen are forced out to the surface and when the pot is taken out of the water, gravity pulls the water downward and with that fresh oxygen from outside are drawn in.

I fertilize now by using a mixer you can couple to the hosepipe but Im wasting a lot of water and fertilizer because most of it lands on the floor.

This debate over the watering method is like fertilizers- do what works for you.

Lennard

[Will Heath]

No scientific proof needed, just do it the way God has for ages, from above. He tried the submersion thing once, flooded everything, then gave it up.



As to the claims that submersion somehow helps air intake better, the same is done when you water from above, as the water drains out the bottom, fresh air is drawn down into the soil to replace the draining water.




Will

[Dave G]

Like JKL, I think the only time you should submerge pots is when you repot. The reason I was given to do this is because when you repot you use dry material, and if you use pine bark with your mix it takes more than a couple of drenches from a hose to saturate it completely. If you've ever watered super dry wood mulch and have it actually bead up and repel water it makes sense
Since I don't use organics in my mixes now I don't do it when I re-pot anymore, I just water from above then do it again in ten minutes or so.
When it comes to stuff like this it's good enough for me because people like Brent or HARRYsay to do it

[davestree]

God waters trees from below, too. Just ask any tree that grows beside a river. It doesn't make any difference how you water, air intake is the same if you give them enough water from above. Drainage is the same, too. Just make sure you use a good free draining soil.

[jkl]

Quote

Just ask any tree that grows beside a river.

Yeah but She doesn't put all trees beside rivers. And if the river floods for too long, many of those she DOES put there will die -- unless they're water tupelo, bald cypress and water elm and a few other species of that ilk.

[maveriiick]

Strange but one of my posts was edited out? Anyways, I guess there is no definitive horticultural/scientific reason for either method and I will use both to be safe. Thanx for your insights.

[Enoch]

I typically do both with my "indoor" bonsai.

I usually bring the trees outside to let them get some fresh air and sunlight when I water them; but during the winter it's really not a smart idea. So, lately I just put them in the sink, plug the drain, and fill it up to the rim of the pots. I let them sit for about 5-10 minutes, then unplug the drain, let the water drain and let trees sit and drain more for about 5 minutes, then I overhead water them with fertilizer.

Really, the only time it's "necessary" to submerge a bonsai is if it gets extremely dry, then I would submerge, but ALSO overhead water after submerging.