[matthiastrek]

I am currently working on an acer palmatum, and since I have no sense of art or styling trees, I need some suggestions to help me make this tree more attractive. Here are some recent pics:











and here is a pic with summer leaves, courtesy of my friend for his great photography:



all I have been doing to this tree is pinching and leaf pruning, no wiring yet. The internodes on the branches are an average of 1 in. apart. Any suggestions are welcome.

[Treefan]

Hi, I'm going to tell you something you might not be crazy about, but I think it needs saying... You said you have no sense about art or styling trees, well why are trying to do bonsai? Have you seen beautiful trees and want to do your own? You have a sense of art if you saw beauty in the trees, but just don't know how to look at it and make the connection from your eyes to your hands (or conscious brain yet). If all you started out to do was to see if you could grow trees in small pots, that could be another story, but even if that's the case, but you want the trees to look good, this isn't the way to do it (asking us) because we can't 'do' all your trees, only give you the odd idea if you present them (one at a time please :-) with questions specific to aspects of each one, such as "how do I make branch #2 on the left side either bend this way to compliment branch #5 in the back, or else how do I get branch #4 to bud back because I need more foliage in that spot" etc. etc. You need to have some idea of where you want to go with each tree, what it could look like in 10 years, or else what's the point once you've proven that you can keep one alive in a small pot?

What you need is a) a local club where you can go and see what others are doing first hand and ask why they're doing whatever to that tree this time, and decide if you like their ideas, or whether you have better ones, and find a local art class (even some kiddy night thing) and talk to the teachers about the difference between good design and bad, and what makes good vs bad, why sometimes leaving a space is more important than filling it up even if it 'matches' the other side, why odd numbers (of branches, or trees in a forest planting) are better than even ones, and see if you can appreciate the answers. If not, don't do bonsai, but I bet that won't happen. You do need some guidance, but our telling you to cut this or that branch on this tree won't tell you why it's a good idea, and you'll never figure out what to do in future. Go sit in the woods and figure out for yourself why one tree is more attractive than another, what points make it nicer, etc. And look at a thousand books on bonsai (they're out there - Amazon.com has tons of cheapos - previously read - if you search there under bonsai books, used, and if you still haven't got it by then, if you're truly 'tree-blind' then ... why do bonsai?

This is my rant for tonight :-)! PS - Lots of others will be giving you specific suggestions now, guaranteed!

This post has been edited by Treefan: 01 November 2009 - 03:29 AM

[matthiastrek]

Treefan, on 31 October 2009 - 11:28 PM, said:

Hi, I'm going to tell you something you might not be crazy about, but I think it needs saying... You said you have no sense about art or styling trees, well why are trying to do bonsai? Have you seen beautiful trees and want to do your own? You have a sense of art if you saw beauty in the trees, but just don't know how to look at it and make the connection from your eyes to your hands (or conscious brain yet). If all you started out to do was to see if you could grow trees in small pots, that could be another story, but even if that's the case, but you want the trees to look good, this isn't the way to do it (asking us) because we can't 'do' all your trees, only give you the odd idea if you present them (one at a time please :-) with questions specific to aspects of each one, such as "how do I make branch #2 on the left side either bend this way to compliment branch #5 in the back, or else how do I get branch #4 to bud back because I need more foliage in that spot" etc. etc. You need to have some idea of where you want to go with each tree, what it could look like in 10 years, or else what's the point once you've proven that you can keep one alive in a small pot?

What you need is a) a local club where you can go and see what others are doing first hand and ask why they're doing whatever to that tree this time, and decide if you like their ideas, or whether you have better ones, and find a local art class (even some kiddy night thing) and talk to the teachers about the difference between good design and bad, and what makes good vs bad, why sometimes leaving a space is more important than filling it up even if it 'matches' the other side, why odd numbers (of branches, or trees in a forest planting) are better than even ones, and see if you can appreciate the answers. If not, don't do bonsai, but I bet that won't happen. You do need some guidance, but our telling you to cut this or that branch on this tree won't tell you why it's a good idea, and you'll never figure out what to do in future. Go sit in the woods and figure out for yourself why one tree is more attractive than another, what points make it nicer, etc. And look at a thousand books on bonsai (they're out there - Amazon.com has tons of cheapos - previously read - if you search there under bonsai books, used, and if you still haven't got it by then, if you're truly 'tree-blind' then ... why do bonsai?

This is my rant for tonight :-)! PS - Lots of others will be giving you specific suggestions now, guaranteed!

When I said "no sense of art", I didn't mean no knowledge of the subject. More like suggestions on what other people would think make this tree look better. I know all the "rules", such as no opposite branches and no criss-crossing branches/nebari, and I have taken classes and visited symposiums/exhibitions. Its just that when it comes to a tree's appearance, almost all trees look good to me. If there are two finished trees that are beautiful, I can't say which one is better. Right now, I think the tree is very good looking, but of course not everyone will say that. They'll say, "do this" or "do that", and whether I listen to them or not is up to me. Thats why I came here to get opinions on how to make this tree more attractive. Just opinions, not orders.

Now hopefully people will give me suggestions and not go on tirades, I'm trying to avoid that.

[lennard]

There are some problems with your tree - the biggest to me the reverse taper where the main trunk splits into two branches and the lack of a visible nebari.

If it were mine I would remove the straight growing branch in the first picture(leaving a big scar!) and reduce the other branch way down.

From there with some movement in the trunk I would build it into a informal broom.

Dont be discourage by this - thats the way the boerewors(sausage) bend!

Lennard

[Redwing]

matthiastrek, on 31 October 2009 - 09:30 PM, said:

Now hopefully people will ... not go on tirades, I'm trying to avoid that.

And you come to the internet?

----

Take a look at http://www.andyrutle...book/index.html

-rw

[jkl]

I wouldn't worry about the so-called everse taper at this point. It looks as if there some clutter in the crotch -- branches, rough bark, etc. Clean that out and you may have masked a lot of it. Otherwise, time will probably help.

What bothers me the most about this otherwise very nice start is the stiff appearance of both trunks. You have two options, I think:

1. Force a bend in the smaller trunk, so it's leaning away from the mother trunk, and fixing the top of both trunks. There's a complete mix up of too-long branches going every which way on both.

or

2. Cutting the smaller trunk and turning it into a large branch (it does split away rather high up the trunk to make a true twin trunk tree). and growing some new left-hand branches off the main trunk.

I suspect there are some potential surface roots under the mound of soil at the base. You should expose them and let them mature.

Nice start.

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[Accrajucar]

king kong, on 01 November 2009 - 03:14 PM, said:

No design gifts is not the end of the World. First lets start with the wainscoting detail you have with the wall pug. You need to lower the wainscoating so it is continuous with no cut-outs. The tree will be easy compared to the remodeling job. You will be able to use the BonsaiSites logo tree for a guide.

KK

There! Now you've had your laughs and attention, you can go do more useful things, like shaving your eyebrows or something...

[jkl]

If you've noticed KK's other posts, this guy is a troll. I'd ignore him. Trolls have the attention span of gnats.

[matthiastrek]

king kong, on 01 November 2009 - 11:55 AM, said:

I included a picture of myself so you will be able to understand I am a normal cheerful guy just trying to help out my bonsai friends.

KK

Haha, I'm sure you're a good guy. No worries.

jkl, on 01 November 2009 - 08:52 AM, said:

I wouldn't worry about the so-called everse taper at this point. It looks as if there some clutter in the crotch -- branches, rough bark, etc. Clean that out and you may have masked a lot of it. Otherwise, time will probably help.

What bothers me the most about this otherwise very nice start is the stiff appearance of both trunks. You have two options, I think:

1. Force a bend in the smaller trunk, so it's leaning away from the mother trunk, and fixing the top of both trunks. There's a complete mix up of too-long branches going every which way on both.

or

2. Cutting the smaller trunk and turning it into a large branch (it does split away rather high up the trunk to make a true twin trunk tree). and growing some new left-hand branches off the main trunk.

I suspect there are some potential surface roots under the mound of soil at the base. You should expose them and let them mature.

Nice start.

I was also thinking about forcing a bend in the smaller trunk, but closer to the main trunk. I can't see a good foliage pattern if it was bent away, but thats just me.

Or if I do decide to cut the smaller trunk, how would I promote branch growth in that area?

[jkl]

Quote

Or if I do decide to cut the smaller trunk, how would I promote branch growth in that area?

Chances are you wouldn't have to do anything. It'll bud. But doing that necessary work at the top will also promote budding lower down.

[matthiastrek]

I have decided to remove the smaller "trunk" and grow it in a different pot.

Before I do that though, I have to ask how I would go about doing this. It seems simple at first - removing it with cutters at its base. But then I noticed that the main trunk extends towards the small trunk, so if I removed it, there would be a giant lump at the base's side. How would I take care of that?

[Gerhard]

Quote

I have decided to remove the smaller "trunk" and grow it in a different pot

If this is what you want to do, read up on airlayering.

Personally I do not think this way is the best for the tree, but, hey, you have to look at it!

Have fun

Gerhard

PS: Don't be put off by the way this post started. What is important is that you concentrate on your passion....Bonsai!!!